Watchman Nee Forum Frigate
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Welcome to the Watchman Nee Forum Frigate. Post yer opinion, a link to some of yer work, or yer thoughts regarding the best books and criticisms concerning Watchman Nee.

We'd also like to invite ye to sail on by the Watchman Nee Live Chat, and feel free to use the message board below to schedule a chat session. And the brave of heart shall certainly wish to sign their souls aboard The Jolly Roger.

• Top 100 Christian Forums - Troy 02:28:23 9/29/104 (0)
• Crow's Nest - Taryn 11:47:47 9/20/104 (0)
• Watchman Nee - Troy 05:31:23 1/28/104 (1)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Watchman Nee - Troy 05:31:10 1/28/104 (1)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Order Watchman Nee books from Christian Literature Crusade (CLC International) or Christian Fellowship Publishers. Find them via a Google search. No need to give money to LSM so they can use it to sue your brothers and sisters in Christ. - Steve 23:38:13 1/11/104 (1)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• second try - eseeker 12:26:33 1/09/104 (1)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Watchman Nee books - eseeker 18:24:42 1/07/104 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Hey...where did everybody go? - Steve 01:35:53 1/05/104 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Tim, you are right! The characteristics of LSM and International Church of Christ are so similar, it is erie. - Tmonster 19:02:43 12/31/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Teaching from the LSM: "We need to learn from the Red Guards. Even we need to learn from Satan for whenever God wants to do a work, Satan is always one step ahead." - Steve 13:34:41 12/31/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Teaching from the LSM: "Success of revolution depends on propaganda. To take the New Way we need to learn from the Communists in their propaganda techniques. The way of propaganda is through the clever use of our tongues." - Steve 13:33:09 12/31/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• To understand the Local Church...go to www.reveal.org. The LC and ICC/Boston Movement think and act the same way. - Tim 00:58:52 12/31/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Two men die of a heart attack. One man is an opposer of the Local Church [Jim Moran]. The other man is a promoter of the Local Church [Don Looper]. The Local Church claims that God killed the first man because he was an opposer. Why did the second man die? - Bill 00:14:23 12/31/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Now according to Mr. T.K. I'm a "lunatic". I guess that's the name they use for those who confront them with hard cold facts. What I really can't grasp is: why not just repent and change? What does this little group have to lose by openly admiting their silly mistakes and making substantial changes? No...instead they call people names and resort to all kinds of childish things. I feel sorry for their members who sincerely confront them with problems. They are called all sorts of names like: leper, poisonous, rebellious, etc. I guess "lunatic" has been added to the list! Highly intelligent stuff, huh? - edm 21:27:04 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh...so now David Wang of the Local Church in Rosemead is not credible? Why is that Mr. T.K.? Because he disagrees with you? Maybe we should put him under oath and have him testify. Then we can put you under oath and have you testify. How about that? Or maybe we can do lie detector tests. How about that Mr. T.K.? Let's see who is really credible. - edm 21:20:11 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Thomas K, those sources have been quoted on this site before. There would be no point in doing it again, since you will just run it of the edge of the page again. That's your way of dealing with the truth. - Roger 21:11:52 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Now again we have Agent Smith/TK having one of his little temper tantrum when confrotned with the truth. 1. Did we say Witness Lee taught these things? No we didn't, now did we? We said LSM leaders appointed by Witness Lee. 2. Paul Hon DID say this and it IS docu.mented. Now run along and do your homework. - edm 21:05:25 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• DONE FOR TONIGHT. GETTING A BIT LATE TO FOOL AROUND. BYE FOR NOW. (talk amongst yourself Roger/edm/Steve/etc. etc.) - Thomas Kincade 20:57:59 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• DONE FOR TONIGHT. GETTING A BIT LATE TO FOOL AROUND. BYE FOR NOW. (talk amongst yourself Roger/edm/Steve/etc. etc.) - Thomas Kincade 20:57:58 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• DONE FOR TONIGHT. GETTING A BIT LATE TO FOOL AROUND. BYE FOR NOW. (talk amongst yourself Roger/edm/Steve/etc. etc.) - Thomas Kincade 20:57:58 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• DONE FOR TONIGHT. GETTING A BIT LATE TO FOOL AROUND. BYE FOR NOW. (talk amongst yourself Roger/edm/Steve/etc. etc.) - Thomas Kincade 20:57:57 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• DONE FOR TONIGHT. GETTING A BIT LATE TO FOOL AROUND. BYE FOR NOW. (talk amongst yourself Roger/edm/Steve/etc. etc.) - Thomas Kincade 20:57:57 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• DONE FOR TONIGHT. GETTING A BIT LATE TO FOOL AROUND. BYE FOR NOW. (talk amongst yourself Roger/edm/Steve/etc. etc.) - Thomas Kincade 20:57:56 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• DONE FOR TONIGHT. GETTING A BIT LATE TO FOOL AROUND. BYE FOR NOW. (talk amongst yourself Roger/edm/Steve/etc. etc.) - Thomas Kincade 20:57:16 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Now Agent Smith/TK re: Jim Moran you know that's not really an answer, don't you? You know all these "facts" just because you like to "keep informed"? You wrote yourself into your own narrative! Now will you produce some substance to back up what you wrote or do we have to call Jim Moran's sister? - edm 20:53:02 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Paul Hon never said any such thing. You're a lunatic. I suppose you got that from your pretty little detractor book too. Boy you'de believe anything so long as it's anti-local church. I'm suprised you didn't believe the guy who said they were killing cats! - Thomas Kincade 20:52:23 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• AH! So this book "TRUE ACCOUNT" is from a local church detractor! Well that figures nicely into your little scheme. Too bad the reference is not credible! Now how about finding an ACTUAL transcript of that spoken message found in any book produced by LSM? Betcha' can't find one, because chances are WITNESS LEE NEVER SAID THOSE THINGS. CASE CLOSED. - Thomas Kincade 20:48:47 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Reference for quotes: "The True Account". Author: David Wang. Page: 2. - edm 20:46:14 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Yes to say Witness Lee is the 4th part of the Trinity is very nonsensical because than it wouldn't be Trinity would it. That is why we were so surprised to learn that Paul Hon stated this in Irving, TX - edm 20:42:03 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Thanks for the quote, EDM, now how about quoting the ENTIRE CONTEXT along with the reference (book title, page number)? - Thomas Kincade 20:40:14 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Exact quote #2: "We need to learn from the Red Guards. Even we need to learn from Satan for whenever God wants to do a work, Satan is always one step ahead." - edm 20:38:01 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• EDM, apparently you don't have a firm grasp of reality. I know these things because I stay informed of what's going on. I know these things because, unlike what you claim here (and elsewhere supposedly) the local churches do not keep things secret from its members. I know lots of other things as well because I have been closely involved with certain other affairs. But that's an other story entirely. - Thomas Kincade 20:37:26 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Exact quote #1: "Success of revolution depends on propaganda. To take the New Way we need to learn from the Communists in their propaganda techniques. The way of propaganda is through the clever use of our tongues." - edm 20:35:22 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Steve had it right. The whole thing is suspect. Just read what Agent Smith/TK wrote about Jim. 1. Not one person in "authority" ever said God killed Jim for thier silly little cause. How does he know? 2. Jim's sister said she didn't wnat to have anything to do with her brother. How does he know? 3. The "brothers" who cleaned out his apartment "testified" that it was filled with books. What brothers? Meanwhile, this is all coming from a guy who also claims he is a third party bystander sticking up for the poor oppressed WL Church. Really? Because when I read you Jim Moran report it's sounds like you write yourself right into the narrative. - edm 20:32:34 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• CONTEXT makes all the difference in the world. Obviously Roger can't tell the difference between someone saying we can learn from the MISTAKES of men like these and someone promoting their political/ world views. Can we learn from the mistakes of even Satan? Sure we can! But Roger wants us all to think that Witness Lee promoted the teachings of communist leaders! Yeah....right. Pull the other one. I'll also be expecting a quoted statement from the person who supposedly called Witness Lee the 4th part of the Trinity - as if that made any sense in the firt place. A TRInity does not have 4 parts. How far will you go to tell a lie, Roger? I'll be waiting for those statements, Rog. - Thomas Kincade 20:30:26 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Obviously no one can talk common sense to Agent Smith/TK. He asks in what context the LSM leaders said we should follow the Communisnts, Red Guards, Satan, etc. as if in any context it would make sense! What difference does the context make? It nonsense from beginning to end. Just like the leader who called Witness Lee the 4th part of the Trinity. Does the context matter? Or can we all just say "cuckoo" together and get it over with? - edm 20:23:18 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• You should be honored. The Lord rode a jack as$. God's spoke through a jack as$. The difference between you and them is that they testified to the truth. You wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and bit you on the rear end. - Roger 20:22:43 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• OOOOOHHHH....Roger....Please don't resort to swearing. It really does not make you look very good. No, not at all. Tsk, tsk. - Thomas Kincade 20:20:01 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Keep it up Tomas K. The more of the low-life activity of the Local Church you are willing to reveal, the more it will be getting out to other sites that cannot be vandalized by a jack as$es like you. - Roger 20:15:57 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• You are so filled with lies, you don't even know what truth is, Roger. Witness Lee said to learn from Satan, huh? Mao too? PROVE IT, BIG BOY. Give a complete quote, including the context in which he said these things. You compare Jim Moran to an Old Testament prophet? LOL!!! I've never heard of anything more comical than this! You seriously believe that? You are more gullible than I thought. Yes, Jim Moran was homeless. He was also a drunk. Betcha' didn't know that one, did you? Well, I won't kick a dead man. At least he had enough sense to get off the booze and try to make something of himself by going back to school. But too bad he NEVER ACTUALLY GRADUATED from that bastion of higher institutionalized religious thought known as the Moody Bible Institute. Oh, and by the way, I'll give you a sworn statement from Jim's sister just as soon as you can dig one up from this supposed "elder" who said that he felt the Lord judged Jim Moran. I'll be waiting. - Thomas Kincade 20:03:39 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• You are so filled with lies, you don't even know what truth is, Roger. Witness Lee said to learn from Satan, huh? Mao too? PROVE IT, BIG BOY. Give a complete quote, including the context in which he said these things. You compare Jim Moran to an Old Testament prophet? LOL!!! I've never heard of anything more comical than this! You seriously believe that? You are more gullible than I thought. Yes, Jim Moran was homeless. He was also a drunk. Betcha' didn't know that one, did you? Well, I won't kick a dead man. At least he had enough sense to get off the booze and try to make something of himself by going back to school. But too bad he NEVER ACTUALLY GRADUATED from that bastion of higher institutionalized religious thought known as the Moody Bible Institute. Oh, and by the way, I'll give you a sworn statement from Jim's sister just as soon as you can dig one up from this supposed "elder" who said that he felt the Lord judged Jim Moran. I'll be waiting. - Thomas Kincade 20:02:17 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• So Jim Moran was not popular? So he was estranged from his family? You say he was homeless. You say he was hated and reviled by all. Sounds like an Old Testament prophet to me. I didn’t know Jim and certainly can’t vouch for his walk in the Lord. But as has been stated earlier here, he WAS fair in that he opened up his site for debate from both sides, and even gave the public links to pro Living Stream cites. In that regard he was 100 times more noble than the Living Stream which only wants to put out a one-sided, doctored image of themselves, while at the same time using every means possible to squash any voice of dissent. Did Lee learn that from Mao. I often wonder how much he learned from Mao, since some of his followers were willing to say that we need to learn from Satan. Further, the site of a group of Local Church elves marching out of Jim Moran’s apartment with his personal belongings is absolutely disgusting. Will you stop at nothing? For you to deny that the Local Church did not take delight in Jim Moran’s death is an outright lie. One elder in the Local Church, when asked if he thought Jim’s death was the Lord’s doing, said “we prayed and we feel the Lord judged.” You people are disgusting. The more your actions come to light, the more repulsive the Living Stream et al appears to the entire world. I would say you all learned very well from Satan, Mao, Hitler and any other piece of trash you can think of. Furthermore, the next time you try to set up a site for discussion on Watchman Nee, you can well expect that there will always be some available to let the public know what a fraud it is for the Living Stream Ministry to try and marry the ministries of Witness Lee and Watchman Nee. Once Lee knew that Nee was safely tucked away in a prison, he took a totally different path, leading to cultism. - Roger 19:51:16 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh, please, Roger. Waste your empathy on someone else. I told the straight truth about Jim Moran. Nothing more, nothing less. Sure Jim's situation was pathetic. I do feel sorry for him. But laying out the facts as they happened does not make me a cruel person. What kind of statement would you like to see from Jim's sister, by the way? You think she signed an affidavit or something. You really are a funny little person. - Thomas Kincade 19:37:49 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh, please, Roger. Waste your empathy on someone else. I told the straight truth about Jim Moran. Nothing more, nothing less. Sure Jim's situation was pathetic. I do feel sorry for him. But laying out the facts as they happened does not make me a cruel person. What kind of statement would you like to see from Jim's sister, by the way? You think she signed an affidavit or something. You really are a funny little person. - Thomas Kincade 19:37:48 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh, please, Roger. Waste your empathy on someone else. I told the straight truth about Jim Moran. Nothing more, nothing less. Sure Jim's situation was pathetic. I do feel sorry for him. But laying out the facts as they happened does not make me a cruel person. What kind of statement would you like to see from Jim's sister, by the way? You think she signed an affidavit or something. You really are a funny little person. - Thomas Kincade 19:37:47 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh, please, Roger. Waste your empathy on someone else. I told the straight truth about Jim Moran. Nothing more, nothing less. Sure Jim's situation was pathetic. I do feel sorry for him. But laying out the facts as they happened does not make me a cruel person. What kind of statement would you like to see from Jim's sister, by the way? You think she signed an affidavit or something. You really are a funny little person. - Thomas Kincade 19:37:46 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh, please, Roger. Waste your empathy on someone else. I told the straight truth about Jim Moran. Nothing more, nothing less. Sure Jim's situation was pathetic. I do feel sorry for him. But laying out the facts as they happened does not make me a cruel person. What kind of statement would you like to see from Jim's sister, by the way? You think she signed an affidavit or something. You really are a funny little person. - Thomas Kincade 19:37:45 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh, please, Roger. Waste your empathy on someone else. I told the straight truth about Jim Moran. Nothing more, nothing less. Sure Jim's situation was pathetic. I do feel sorry for him. But laying out the facts as they happened does not make me a cruel person. What kind of statement would you like to see from Jim's sister, by the way? You think she signed an affidavit or something. You really are a funny little person. - Thomas Kincade 19:37:44 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh, please, Roger. Waste your empathy on someone else. I told the straight truth about Jim Moran. Nothing more, nothing less. Sure Jim's situation was pathetic. I do feel sorry for him. But laying out the facts as they happened does not make me a cruel person. What kind of statement would you like to see from Jim's sister, by the way? You think she signed an affidavit or something. You really are a funny little person. - Thomas Kincade 19:37:44 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• So Jim Moran was not popular? So he was estranged from his family? You say he was homeless. You say he was hated and reviled by all. Sounds like an Old Testament prophet to me. I didn’t know Jim and certainly can’t vouch for his walk in the Lord. But as has been stated earlier here, he WAS fair in that he opened up his site for debate from both sides, and even gave the public links to pro Living Stream cites. In that regard he was 100 times more noble than the Living Stream which only wants to put out a one-sided, doctored image of themselves, while at the same time using every means possible to squash any voice of dissent. Did Lee learn that from Mao. I often wonder how much he learned from Mao, since some of his followers were willing to say that we need to learn from Satan. Further, the site of a group of Local Church elves marching out of Jim Moran’s apartment with his personal belongings is absolutely disgusting. Will you stop at nothing? For you to deny that the Local Church did not take delight in Jim Moran’s death is an outright lie. One elder in the Local Church, when asked if he thought Jim’s death was the Lord’s doing, said “we prayed and we feel the Lord judged.” You people are disgusting. The more your actions come to light, the more repulsive the Living Stream et al appears to the entire world. I would say you all learned very well from Satan, Mao, Hitler and any other piece of trash you can think of. Furthermore, the next time you try to set up a site for discussion on Watchman Nee, you can well expect that there will always be some available to let the public know what a fraud it is for the Living Stream Ministry to try and marry the ministries of Witness Lee and Watchman Nee. Once Lee knew that Nee was safely tucked away in a prison, he took a totally different path, leading to cultism. - Roger 19:24:11 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• How typical of local church detractors to treat grown adults like children. A cute little diversionary tactic by a group of spineless simpletons. It shouldn't be surprising, though, since, rather than deal with the issue of their own lawlesness, they prefer to talk down to others. Makes them feel important. Like toddlers trying on their first pair of "big boy underwear." Problem is, they are so proud of their cute little accomplishments they don't smell the mess they've had in their pants the whole time. - Thomas Kincade 19:09:40 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• How typical of local church detractors to treat grown adults like children. A cute little diversionary tactic by a group of spineless simpletons. It shouldn't be surprising, though, since, rather than deal with the issue of their own lawlesness, they prefer to talk down to others. Makes them feel important. Like toddlers trying on their first pair of "big boy underwear." Problem is, they are so proud of their cute little accomplishments they don't smell the mess they've had in their pants the whole time. - Thomas Kincade 19:09:39 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• How typical of local church detractors to treat grown adults like children. A cute little diversionary tactic by a group of spineless simpletons. It shouldn't be surprising, though, since, rather than deal with the issue of their own lawlesness, they prefer to talk down to others. Makes them feel important. Like toddlers trying on their first pair of "big boy underwear." Problem is, they are so proud of their cute little accomplishments they don't smell the mess they've had in their pants the whole time. - Thomas Kincade 19:09:37 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• How TK/AG described Jim Moran's situation is cruel if it is to be believed at all. [I too am waiting for a posting about what Jim's sister exactly told TK/AG. Not holding my breath of course.] As if the man is somehow lesser as a human being for suffering in such a manner. In fact, Jim was a graduate from Moody Bible Institute. His writings on the Local Church were thoughtful and helpful to many people including many college students. He conducted himself fairly, by posting Local Church members e-mails and linking his site directly to Local Church sites. Now the LC leaders do not even have the decency to rebuke their members who teach that God killed Jim for them. Cruel, inhumane people. - Bill 18:11:48 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Thomas K's method of posting reiminds me of a small child who will place their hands over their ears and repeadedly shout words to try and make the situation fit their liking. It doesn't matter how many times you shout it TK, that still doesn't make it the truth.JUST CALM DOWN NOW... slowly...back away from the keyboard. That's it. Now we've got a nice place for you to go. You can sleep there whenever you want. You can even sleep standing up. The nice men there in the ice cream suits have put nice softe stuff on the wall. Everything is going to be alright. - Roger 17:52:09 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Well, as usual, the whole thing is not credible. Even Thomas K's latest thing about Jim Moran. Read it carefully. How does he know no person in a position of authority from the LSM denomination has said that God killed Moran on their behalf? Is he all-knowing? Does he know every conversation made by every leader about the issue? Then he says' something that Jim's sister said about her own brother. Really? Like edm asked: please post it here so we can read it. But the whole thing is so unsubstantial because Thomas K. is the very same guy who has claimed that he is this bystander [not your typical LC member] defending the innocent LSM denom. How does such a bystander know so much detail? It would not surprise me if this character is a LSM employee or leader of one of the LSM churches pretending to me a third party. - Steve 16:36:06 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Yes...they are responsible to make sure the membership is taught correctly about such things. WL Church leaders can yap their heads off about all sorts of nonsense but they can't correct an erroneous teaching afoot among their membership? How convenient for them to be silent at such a moment. [If what you have written about their "silence" has an ounce of "truth" to it in the first place. Which I seriously doubt.] - edm 16:16:47 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Local church leaders did not encourage thoughts among local church members that God killed Jim Moran, neither did they discourage such thoughts. So by the detractors' rational the local church leaders are guilty either way!!!! - Thomas Kincade 15:53:17 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Local church leaders did not encourage thoughts among local church members that God killed Jim Moran, neither did they discourage such thoughts. So by the detractors' rational the local church leaders are guilty either way!!!! - Thomas Kincade 15:53:17 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Local church leaders did not encourage thoughts among local church members that God killed Jim Moran, neither did they discourage such thoughts. So by the detractors' rational the local church leaders are guilty either way!!!! - Thomas Kincade 15:53:16 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Local church leaders did not encourage thoughts among local church members that God killed Jim Moran, neither did they discourage such thoughts. So by the detractors' rational the local church leaders are guilty either way!!!! - Thomas Kincade 15:53:14 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Local church leaders did not encourage thoughts among local church members that God killed Jim Moran, neither did they discourage such thoughts. So by the detractors' rational the local church leaders are guilty either way!!!! - Thomas Kincade 15:53:14 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Local church leaders did not encourage thoughts among local church members that God killed Jim Moran, neither did they discourage such thoughts. So by the detractors' rational the local church leaders are guilty either way!!!! - Thomas Kincade 15:53:12 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Local church leaders did not encourage thoughts among local church members that God killed Jim Moran, neither did they discourage such thoughts. So by the detractors' rational the local church leaders are guilty either way!!!! - Thomas Kincade 15:53:12 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Local church leaders did not encourage thoughts among local church members that God killed Jim Moran, neither did they discourage such thoughts. So by the detractors' rational the local church leaders are guilty either way!!!! - Thomas Kincade 15:53:10 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Local church leaders did not encourage thoughts among local church members that God killed Jim Moran, neither did they discourage such thoughts. So by the detractors' rational the local church leaders are guilty either way!!!! - Thomas Kincade 15:52:14 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Two men die of a heart attack. One man is an opposer of the Local Church [Jim Moran]. The other man is a promoter of the Local Church [Don Looper]. The Local Church claims that God killed the first man because he was an opposer. Why did the second man die? - Bill 15:50:03 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Well, as usual, the whole thing is not credible. Even Thomas K's latest thing about Jim Moran. Read it carefully. How does he know no person in a position of authority from the LSM denomination has said that God killed Moran on their behalf? Is he all-knowing? Does he know every conversation made by every leader about the issue? Then he says' something that Jim's sister said about her own brother. Really? Like edm asked: please post it here so we can read it. But the whole thing is so unsubstantial because Thomas K. is the very same guy who has claimed that he is this bystander [not your typical LC member] defending the innocent LSM denom. How does such a bystander know so much detail? It would not surprise me if this character is a LSM employee or leader of one of the LSM churches pretending to me a third party. - Steve 15:36:17 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Praise the Lord! Thankfully non-propaganda information about the Witness Lee Church is being posted on message boards all over the internet! It has been taught by LSM leaders: "Success of revolution depends on propaganda. To take the New Way we need to learn from the Communists in their propaganda techniques. The way of propaganda is through the clever use of our tongues." But we reject their propaganda machine and will insure the Christian public has access to non-controlled information about them. - edm 15:28:36 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• When LSM's own slanderous publication is brought up (read Fermentation of the Present Rebellion), nothing is said. There is no defense. They cannot dispute it. - Terry 15:26:36 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• This is why many thoughtful Christians do not consider the leadership of the WL Church to be credible or accountable. They teach the silly kind of things posted on this site about the Red Guards, Communists, etc. but when they really do have an opportunity to make a proper correction they refuse to do so because the misconception among their members serves their purpose. Sad really. - edm 15:25:42 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• First of all, I'll post as many times as I please. If that's 1, 2, or 20 times in a row, I will do so freely - after all THIS IS NOT COMMUNIST CHINA - LOL. If you can lawlessly hijack a WATCHMAN NEE discussion board to promote your ant-local church rhetoric, then I can repeat posts just as well. DEAL WITH IT, and learn to stop crying like a baby everytime someone repeats their posts. Second, the leaders in the local church do not have absolute control over what the members think, and how they act. Therefore, they neither stated that Jim Moran's death was due to God's retribution, nor did they discourage members from drawing their own conclusions. They simply informed the churches of what transpired and left it at that. - Thomas Kincade 15:20:10 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Can you please post the statement made to you by Jim Morans' sister? - edm 15:17:18 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Instead of being gleefully happy that God killed Jim Moran on your behalf, considering his living conditions, one should feel heart felt concern that a brother found himself in such a state. Further, we do all die according to God's sovereignty. Jim Moran, Don Looper, you and I are no exception. To let members continue believing that God is up there killing people for the WL Church instead of correcting this publicly is just one more reason sincere Christians question the Witness Lee Church. - edm 15:14:02 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• OK...so we have to post this nine times to push down the other content. Yipee! So the only pertinent "facts" [if they are facts] you have given me are: 1. No person in a position of "authority" said that God killed Jim Moran. Really? Have they publicly discouraged their membership from this sort of practice? If so please post their public statement. Lee taught "divine retribution" for all those who opposed HIS church. This is where the membership learned it from. 2. Jim had many materials about the Witness Lee Church. Really? Well that makes sense doesn't it? he was studying them. 3. The Witness Lee Church received the materials for free instead of paying for them. - edm 15:08:01 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Just in case you wanted to know another one of the LSM teachings: "We need to learn from the Red Guards. Even we need to learn from Satan for whenever God wants to do a work, Satan is always one step ahead." - edm 14:57:46 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh....and let's get the facts stated perfectly, edm. It is clear that you know absolutely nothing of what transpired between the local church and Jim Moran's estate, so you have made this little conspiracy theory up so that you could have something against the local churches. Pretty typical, really, but it shows your ignorance and bigotry. First, Jim Moran died of a ma.ssive heart attack. NOT ONE PERSON IN AUTHORITY in the local churches claimed outright that this was because God killed him. Second, you probably were not aware that no one knew that Jim Moran had died until the stench of his decomposing body emitted into the hallway of his apartment building (A low-rent apartment building for the retired and elderly, by the way.) Third, the sole heir of the "vast estate of James Moran" was his sister. You see, according to Jim's sister, he was not a very popular man. We already knew that he had suffered a divorce, homelessness, and estrangement of his own parent. But even Jim's sister did not want anything to do with him. So when the church approached her with an offer to buy Jim's estate, she gave it to them FOR FREE. The whole kit n' kabootle! Finally, edm, if you believe that all of this was NOT according to divine will, then why don't you try answering what is WAS according to? Maybe Satan coordinated all of this? By the way, you know the brothers who emptied Jim's apartment later testified that they had not seen so many local church books and materials in any local church member's house. He had more local church materials than they had seen in even the oldest local church member's home. Really makes you think, huh? Really shows you where obsession will get you! - Thomas Kincade 14:55:17 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh....and let's get the facts stated perfectly, edm. It is clear that you know absolutely nothing of what transpired between the local church and Jim Moran's estate, so you have made this little conspiracy theory up so that you could have something against the local churches. Pretty typical, really, but it shows your ignorance and bigotry. First, Jim Moran died of a ma.ssive heart attack. NOT ONE PERSON IN AUTHORITY in the local churches claimed outright that this was because God killed him. Second, you probably were not aware that no one knew that Jim Moran had died until the stench of his decomposing body emitted into the hallway of his apartment building (A low-rent apartment building for the retired and elderly, by the way.) Third, the sole heir of the "vast estate of James Moran" was his sister. You see, according to Jim's sister, he was not a very popular man. We already knew that he had suffered a divorce, homelessness, and estrangement of his own parent. But even Jim's sister did not want anything to do with him. So when the church approached her with an offer to buy Jim's estate, she gave it to them FOR FREE. The whole kit n' kabootle! Finally, edm, if you believe that all of this was NOT according to divine will, then why don't you try answering what is WAS according to? Maybe Satan coordinated all of this? By the way, you know the brothers who emptied Jim's apartment later testified that they had not seen so many local church books and materials in any local church member's house. He had more local church materials than they had seen in even the oldest local church member's home. Really makes you think, huh? Really shows you where obsession will get you! - Thomas Kincade 14:55:12 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh....and let's get the facts stated perfectly, edm. It is clear that you know absolutely nothing of what transpired between the local church and Jim Moran's estate, so you have made this little conspiracy theory up so that you could have something against the local churches. Pretty typical, really, but it shows your ignorance and bigotry. First, Jim Moran died of a ma.ssive heart attack. NOT ONE PERSON IN AUTHORITY in the local churches claimed outright that this was because God killed him. Second, you probably were not aware that no one knew that Jim Moran had died until the stench of his decomposing body emitted into the hallway of his apartment building (A low-rent apartment building for the retired and elderly, by the way.) Third, the sole heir of the "vast estate of James Moran" was his sister. You see, according to Jim's sister, he was not a very popular man. We already knew that he had suffered a divorce, homelessness, and estrangement of his own parent. But even Jim's sister did not want anything to do with him. So when the church approached her with an offer to buy Jim's estate, she gave it to them FOR FREE. The whole kit n' kabootle! Finally, edm, if you believe that all of this was NOT according to divine will, then why don't you try answering what is WAS according to? Maybe Satan coordinated all of this? By the way, you know the brothers who emptied Jim's apartment later testified that they had not seen so many local church books and materials in any local church member's house. He had more local church materials than they had seen in even the oldest local church member's home. Really makes you think, huh? Really shows you where obsession will get you! - Thomas Kincade 14:54:43 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh....and let's get the facts stated perfectly, edm. It is clear that you know absolutely nothing of what transpired between the local church and Jim Moran's estate, so you have made this little conspiracy theory up so that you could have something against the local churches. Pretty typical, really, but it shows your ignorance and bigotry. First, Jim Moran died of a ma.ssive heart attack. NOT ONE PERSON IN AUTHORITY in the local churches claimed outright that this was because God killed him. Second, you probably were not aware that no one knew that Jim Moran had died until the stench of his decomposing body emitted into the hallway of his apartment building (A low-rent apartment building for the retired and elderly, by the way.) Third, the sole heir of the "vast estate of James Moran" was his sister. You see, according to Jim's sister, he was not a very popular man. We already knew that he had suffered a divorce, homelessness, and estrangement of his own parent. But even Jim's sister did not want anything to do with him. So when the church approached her with an offer to buy Jim's estate, she gave it to them FOR FREE. The whole kit n' kabootle! Finally, edm, if you believe that all of this was NOT according to divine will, then why don't you try answering what is WAS according to? Maybe Satan coordinated all of this? By the way, you know the brothers who emptied Jim's apartment later testified that they had not seen so many local church books and materials in any local church member's house. He had more local church materials than they had seen in even the oldest local church member's home. Really makes you think, huh? Really shows you where obsession will get you! - Thomas Kincade 14:54:15 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh....and let's get the facts stated perfectly, edm. It is clear that you know absolutely nothing of what transpired between the local church and Jim Moran's estate, so you have made this little conspiracy theory up so that you could have something against the local churches. Pretty typical, really, but it shows your ignorance and bigotry. First, Jim Moran died of a ma.ssive heart attack. NOT ONE PERSON IN AUTHORITY in the local churches claimed outright that this was because God killed him. Second, you probably were not aware that no one knew that Jim Moran had died until the stench of his decomposing body emitted into the hallway of his apartment building (A low-rent apartment building for the retired and elderly, by the way.) Third, the sole heir of the "vast estate of James Moran" was his sister. You see, according to Jim's sister, he was not a very popular man. We already knew that he had suffered a divorce, homelessness, and estrangement of his own parent. But even Jim's sister did not want anything to do with him. So when the church approached her with an offer to buy Jim's estate, she gave it to them FOR FREE. The whole kit n' kabootle! Finally, edm, if you believe that all of this was NOT according to divine will, then why don't you try answering what is WAS according to? Maybe Satan coordinated all of this? By the way, you know the brothers who emptied Jim's apartment later testified that they had not seen so many local church books and materials in any local church member's house. He had more local church materials than they had seen in even the oldest local church member's home. Really makes you think, huh? Really shows you where obsession will get you! - Thomas Kincade 14:54:10 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh....and let's get the facts stated perfectly, edm. It is clear that you know absolutely nothing of what transpired between the local church and Jim Moran's estate, so you have made this little conspiracy theory up so that you could have something against the local churches. Pretty typical, really, but it shows your ignorance and bigotry. First, Jim Moran died of a ma.ssive heart attack. NOT ONE PERSON IN AUTHORITY in the local churches claimed outright that this was because God killed him. Second, you probably were not aware that no one knew that Jim Moran had died until the stench of his decomposing body emitted into the hallway of his apartment building (A low-rent apartment building for the retired and elderly, by the way.) Third, the sole heir of the "vast estate of James Moran" was his sister. You see, according to Jim's sister, he was not a very popular man. We already knew that he had suffered a divorce, homelessness, and estrangement of his own parent. But even Jim's sister did not want anything to do with him. So when the church approached her with an offer to buy Jim's estate, she gave it to them FOR FREE. The whole kit n' kabootle! Finally, edm, if you believe that all of this was NOT according to divine will, then why don't you try answering what is WAS according to? Maybe Satan coordinated all of this? By the way, you know the brothers who emptied Jim's apartment later testified that they had not seen so many local church books and materials in any local church member's house. He had more local church materials than they had seen in even the oldest local church member's home. Really makes you think, huh? Really shows you where obsession will get you! - Thomas Kincade 14:54:06 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh....and let's get the facts stated perfectly, edm. It is clear that you know absolutely nothing of what transpired between the local church and Jim Moran's estate, so you have made this little conspiracy theory up so that you could have something against the local churches. Pretty typical, really, but it shows your ignorance and bigotry. First, Jim Moran died of a ma.ssive heart attack. NOT ONE PERSON IN AUTHORITY in the local churches claimed outright that this was because God killed him. Second, you probably were not aware that no one knew that Jim Moran had died until the stench of his decomposing body emitted into the hallway of his apartment building (A low-rent apartment building for the retired and elderly, by the way.) Third, the sole heir of the "vast estate of James Moran" was his sister. You see, according to Jim's sister, he was not a very popular man. We already knew that he had suffered a divorce, homelessness, and estrangement of his own parent. But even Jim's sister did not want anything to do with him. So when the church approached her with an offer to buy Jim's estate, she gave it to them FOR FREE. The whole kit n' kabootle! Finally, edm, if you believe that all of this was NOT according to divine will, then why don't you try answering what is WAS according to? Maybe Satan coordinated all of this? By the way, you know the brothers who emptied Jim's apartment later testified that they had not seen so many local church books and materials in any local church member's house. He had more local church materials than they had seen in even the oldest local church member's home. Really makes you think, huh? Really shows you where obsession will get you! - Thomas Kincade 14:54:04 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh....and let's get the facts stated perfectly, edm. It is clear that you know absolutely nothing of what transpired between the local church and Jim Moran's estate, so you have made this little conspiracy theory up so that you could have something against the local churches. Pretty typical, really, but it shows your ignorance and bigotry. First, Jim Moran died of a ma.ssive heart attack. NOT ONE PERSON IN AUTHORITY in the local churches claimed outright that this was because God killed him. Second, you probably were not aware that no one knew that Jim Moran had died until the stench of his decomposing body emitted into the hallway of his apartment building (A low-rent apartment building for the retired and elderly, by the way.) Third, the sole heir of the "vast estate of James Moran" was his sister. You see, according to Jim's sister, he was not a very popular man. We already knew that he had suffered a divorce, homelessness, and estrangement of his own parent. But even Jim's sister did not want anything to do with him. So when the church approached her with an offer to buy Jim's estate, she gave it to them FOR FREE. The whole kit n' kabootle! Finally, edm, if you believe that all of this was NOT according to divine will, then why don't you try answering what is WAS according to? Maybe Satan coordinated all of this? By the way, you know the brothers who emptied Jim's apartment later testified that they had not seen so many local church books and materials in any local church member's house. He had more local church materials than they had seen in even the oldest local church member's home. Really makes you think, huh? Really shows you where obsession will get you! - Thomas Kincade 14:54:01 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh....and let's get the facts stated perfectly, edm. It is clear that you know absolutely nothing of what transpired between the local church and Jim Moran's estate, so you have made this little conspiracy theory up so that you could have something against the local churches. Pretty typical, really, but it shows your ignorance and bigotry. First, Jim Moran died of a ma.ssive heart attack. NOT ONE PERSON IN AUTHORITY in the local churches claimed outright that this was because God killed him. Second, you probably were not aware that no one knew that Jim Moran had died until the stench of his decomposing body emitted into the hallway of his apartment building (A low-rent apartment building for the retired and elderly, by the way.) Third, the sole heir of the "vast estate of James Moran" was his sister. You see, according to Jim's sister, he was not a very popular man. We already knew that he had suffered a divorce, homelessness, and estrangement of his own parent. But even Jim's sister did not want anything to do with him. So when the church approached her with an offer to buy Jim's estate, she gave it to them FOR FREE. The whole kit n' kabootle! Finally, edm, if you believe that all of this was NOT according to divine will, then why don't you try answering what is WAS according to? Maybe Satan coordinated all of this? By the way, you know the brothers who emptied Jim's apartment later testified that they had not seen so many local church books and materials in any local church member's house. He had more local church materials than they had seen in even the oldest local church member's home. Really makes you think, huh? Really shows you where obsession will get you! - Thomas Kincade 14:53:54 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Praise the Lord! Thankfully non-propaganda information about the Witness Lee Church is being posted on message boards all over the internet! It has been taught by LSM leaders: "Success of revolution depends on propaganda. To take the New Way we need to learn from the Communists in their propaganda techniques. The way of propaganda is through the clever use of our tongues." But we reject their propaganda machine and will insure the Christian public has access non-controlled information about them. - edm 14:46:58 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Obviously the only thing you're "buying" is the propaganda being spoon fed to you on a daily basis. - edm 14:32:07 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Oh I see Agent Smith/Tommy. If you defend someone on one issue you must defend them on all issues? Is that how an open forum is suppose to work? - edm 14:30:36 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Now you see you underestimate me. By now you should at least know that many of us here in this forum know quite a lot about what goes on behind the scenes in the Witness Lee Church a/k/a Alice in Wonderland! For example, I know that members prayed for something to happen to Jim Moran and when he died they said that it was God who did it on their behalf. I know that per correspondence, the LSM tried to have Jim's site taken down on more than one occas.sion and scared one ISP into doing it so Jim had to change to a new one. I know they also haras.sed poor old Jimbo over one of his URL's. Finally Jim had to go to the WICO and win a decision there. I know when I go to the URL of ltm.org [Light of Truth Ministries] that there is now propaganda content of the Witness Lee Church i.e. they bought Jim's content and used their "copyright" ownership to take his material out of circulation. They also wrote to all website that had any of his materials to have them take them down because now they own the copyrights. I also know that poor old Scotty mentioned due to copyright issues he decided to take the content down. Isn't that special? This is a tiny fraction of what I know. Now boys and girls...let's all take out our pencils together and do our connect the dots pictures! - edm 14:28:39 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• As for the defense of church members from Troy, edm, sorry, I'm not buying it. A nut-case like Troy does not need to be defended against. Furthermore, church members do not need the likes of you to defend them against someone like Troy - someone who will only turn around and bite them in the heel. - Thomas Kincade 14:16:35 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• As for the defense of church members from Troy, edm, sorry, I'm not buying it. A nut-case like Troy does not need to be defended against. Furthermore, church members do not need the likes of you to defend them against someone like Troy - someone who will only turn around and bite them in the heel. - Thomas Kincade 14:16:04 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• More baseless accusations, edm. You do not have the facts. You do not know what the local churches did or did not do with respect to Scott Yang's site. You only have an as.sumption of what you THINK they did. Furthermore, the local churches did not "Wait for Jim Moran to die." Perhaps you THINK that local church members did this, or that they hoped or prayed for Jim Moran to die, but this is not a fact. It is only your as.sumption. The truth of the matter is that you have no solid basis for making such claims. The local churches know EXACTLY what transpired for them to acquire Jim Moran's website. But this does not matter to you because all you care for is your version of what transpired - a version that is baseless and devoid of any truth whatsoever. - Thomas Kincade 14:10:16 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Another fact that seems to have escaped Agent Smith/Tommy: Non Witness Lee Church members on this site [including myself] DEFENDED Witness Lee Church members against Troy's accusations that they were demon posssessed, non-Christian, etc. - edm 13:52:37 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Interesting link: http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/investigations/inquiryreports/stream.asp - edm 13:47:18 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• I know it is probably quite difficult for your Agent Smith/Tommy but try very hard to tell the truth - at least once in a while. Let's work together on this OK? I'm going to hold your hand through this one more time. Scott Yang for MONTHS - MAYBE YEARS - had a board dedicated to the discussion of the Witness Lee Church. This board had postings from many sources from all over the world. Including members and non-members of the Witness Lee Church. SUDDENLY when Witness Lee Church members on this board found out about it, poor old Scotty had a "change of heart" and took a board down that had been up and active WAY BEFORE IT WAS MENTIONED HERE! Does this surprise anyone? It shouldn't...because the Witness Lee Church actively engages in information control tactics. Standard MO for them. They couldn't control the content on Jim Moran's site. Although they tried very hard. So...they waited until he died. Claimed God killed him for them. Bought the content from his disinterested estate. Co-opted his URL and now use it for their own propaganda! - edm 13:44:58 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• It is no surprise to me, nor should it be a surprise to anyone else reading this forum, that true-to-form local church detractors engage in morally lawless activities in order to spread their lies and slander. They claim to uphold what they call the "truth" while at the same time hijacking internet discussion boards not intended for their type of content. Scott Yang's website was a perfect example. When things started going wrong for them here (With, of course, consipracy theories too boot - that the big, bad LSM ha.ckers had caused the problems; when, in fact, it was their lawless postings that over-ran this board), they sauntered on over to Scott Yang's and began filling his blog with the same slanderous content. Of course, since Scott Yang's board was not designed to discuss the local churches, he immediately deleted all the posts. Good for Scott! At least he's controling the content that he wants on his own site. When this all happened - when Scott Yang deleted the content - local church detractors let loose with a barrage of accusations against the local churches. They claimed that the local churches ha.cked Scott's website and removed all their posts. Then Scott's website was down for a couple of days. The detractors continued with their baseless accusations that the local church was involved in ha.cking Scott's website. But guess what, folks? Scott Yang was only running a ha.ck program himself, trying to find flaws in his own system! Essentially Scott ha.cked his own site in order to find back.doors that ha.ckers could use. He posted this fact in his own blog. But did the detractors EVER apologize and say they were wrong? NOPE! They would rather let something like this quietly die. You ask why? Because it further discredits them. It puts yet another egg in their collective faces. The local church detractors are like a collective of pond leeches. Not one of them has a spine, and they leech off of others. They hijack web forums, they made false and baseless accusations, and they wilfully and gleefully slander others - all for the glory of God, eh, fellas? Methinks not! It's all for the glory of yourselves! (Selfish, petty, carnal, fleshly, self-righteous, and conceited). - Thomas Kincade 13:27:38 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• It is no surprise to me, nor should it be a surprise to anyone else reading this forum, that true-to-form local church detractors engage in morally lawless activities in order to spread their lies and slander. They claim to uphold what they call the "truth" while at the same time hijacking internet discussion boards not intended for their type of content. Scott Yang's website was a perfect example. When things started going wrong for them here (With, of course, consipracy theories too boot - that the big, bad LSM ha.ckers had caused the problems; when, in fact, it was their lawless postings that over-ran this board), they sauntered on over to Scott Yang's and began filling his blog with the same slanderous content. Of course, since Scott Yang's board was not designed to discuss the local churches, he immediately deleted all the posts. Good for Scott! At least he's controling the content that he wants on his own site. When this all happened - when Scott Yang deleted the content - local church detractors let loose with a barrage of accusations against the local churches. They claimed that the local churches ha.cked Scott's website and removed all their posts. Then Scott's website was down for a couple of days. The detractors continued with their baseless accusations that the local church was involved in ha.cking Scott's website. But guess what, folks? Scott Yang was only running a ha.ck program himself, trying to find flaws in his own system! Essentially Scott ha.cked his own site in order to find back.doors that ha.ckers could use. He posted this fact in his own blog. But did the detractors EVER apologize and say they were wrong? NOPE! They would rather let something like this quietly die. You ask why? Because it further discredits them. It puts yet another egg in their collective faces. The local church detractors are like a collective of pond leeches. Not one of them has a spine, and they leech off of others. They hijack web forums, they made false and baseless accusations, and they wilfully and gleefully slander others - all for the glory of God, eh, fellas? Methinks not! It's all for the glory of yourselves! (Selfish, petty, carnal, fleshly, self-righteous, and conceited). - Thomas Kincade 13:27:11 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• It is no surprise to me, nor should it be a surprise to anyone else reading this forum, that true-to-form local church detractors engage in morally lawless activities in order to spread their lies and slander. They claim to uphold what they call the "truth" while at the same time hijacking internet discussion boards not intended for their type of content. Scott Yang's website was a perfect example. When things started going wrong for them here (With, of course, consipracy theories too boot - that the big, bad LSM ha.ckers had caused the problems; when, in fact, it was their lawless postings that over-ran this board), they sauntered on over to Scott Yang's and began filling his blog with the same slanderous content. Of course, since Scott Yang's board was not designed to discuss the local churches, he immediately deleted all the posts. Good for Scott! At least he's controling the content that he wants on his own site. When this all happened - when Scott Yang deleted the content - local church detractors let loose with a barrage of accusations against the local churches. They claimed that the local churches ha.cked Scott's website and removed all their posts. Then Scott's website was down for a couple of days. The detractors continued with their baseless accusations that the local church was involved in ha.cking Scott's website. But guess what, folks? Scott Yang was only running a ha.ck program himself, trying to find flaws in his own system! Essentially Scott ha.cked his own site in order to find back.doors that ha.ckers could use. He posted this fact in his own blog. But did the detractors EVER apologize and say they were wrong? NOPE! They would rather let something like this quietly die. You ask why? Because it further discredits them. It puts yet another egg in their collective faces. The local church detractors are like a collective of pond leeches. Not one of them has a spine, and they leech off of others. They hijack web forums, they made false and baseless accusations, and they wilfully and gleefully slander others - all for the glory of God, eh, fellas? Methinks not! It's all for the glory of yourselves! (Selfish, petty, carnal, fleshly, self-righteous, and conceited). - Thomas Kincade 13:27:03 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Two men die of a heart attack. One man is an opposer of the Local Church [Jim Moran]. The other man is a promoter of the Local Church [Don Looper]. The Local Church claims that God killed the first man because he was an opposer. Why did the second man die? - Bill 12:33:55 12/30/103 (2)
  • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
  • Re: Watchman Nee books - Thomas Kincade 14:46:10 1/08/104 (1)
    • Re: Watchman Nee - the facts - Troy 06:46:47 5/05/104 (0)
• Once again we ask Agent Smith, Thomas Kincade or whatever his name is at the moment to please tell us exactly what "lies" about the Witness Lee Church have been posted in this forum? What are the lies exactly? Please post them clearly. Spell it out. - edm 12:20:12 12/30/103 (2)